Kraftwerk copyright case

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    • Kraftwerk copyright case

      they must be skint, the ammount of times there music has been sampled over the years and i bet they never tried suing anyone before, its shocking in my oppinion imagine if all electro artists decided to sue the courts would be full 24/7 i would be honoured if my music was sampled (not that ive made any ) but a lot of people chase the origin of the sample and then it gets the original artist exposure to new fans.
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    • Kraftwerk copyright case

      as i understood it, the court has NOT AT ALL dealt kraftwerk a blow. ???
      it is quite possible that ALL sampling will be prohibited in the future.* before, this only meant sampling of a melody, but now even the "shortest parts" are included. and that can also mean a beat or just particles of a beat.


      *prohibited of course meaning that it is not totally impossible, but that you have to ask for permission and pay royalties.
    • Kraftwerk copyright case

      elektroakust. wrote:

      if any pop producer would sample my music
      without asking or giving credit
      and selling a serious amount of copies...
      i would sue too. ;D


      Got that sh!t right Mat! ;D

      I'm waiting on 25G from Universal right now. The Game used samples from "Jam On It" for his song "Ya Heard" featuring Ludacris. Only thing is, they cleared it with Rhino, but the version they used was mine. I'm laughing all the way to the bank! :D
    • Kraftwerk copyright case

      lj wrote:

      as i understood it, the court has NOT AT ALL dealt kraftwerk a blow. ???
      it is quite possible that ALL sampling will be prohibited in the future.* before, this only meant sampling of a melody, but now even the "shortest parts" are included. and that can also mean a beat or just particles of a beat.


      *prohibited of course meaning that it is not totally impossible, but that you have to ask for permission and pay royalties.


      It has ALWAYS been the "shortest" parts when it comes to sampling SOUNDrights. What this court (as I understand it) is saying that the usage in question does not violate COPYright. In other words, they would not owe Kraftwerk publishing on the usage. I am pretty sure that they would still have to pay for the usage itself. Considering that all they sampled is a drumbeat I can see where no copyright would be infringed, since no melody was used.
    • Kraftwerk copyright case

      Cozmo D wrote:


      elektroakust. wrote:

      if any pop producer would sample my music
      without asking or giving credit
      and selling a serious amount of copies...
      i would sue too. ;D


      Got that sh!t right Mat! ;D

      I'm waiting on 25G from Universal right now. The Game used samples from "Jam On It" for his song "Ya Heard" featuring Ludacris. Only thing is, they cleared it with Rhino, but the version they used was mine. I'm laughing all the way to the bank! :D





      Don't mess with gangstazzz cozmo!!Hehheheh.. ;):p
    • Kraftwerk copyright case

      >>and i bet they never tried suing anyone before<<

      Well, that's not exactly true. Kraftwerk are actually in the books for filing the first case of sampling ever. They sued Africa Bambaata for the use of Trans Europe Express in his Planet Rock......he was found guilty, had to pay money and the name of Planet Rock had to be changed into Planet Rock/Trans Europe Express. So Kraftwerk are the originators of when it comes to filing charges against folks who sample tunes.

      A.
    • Kraftwerk copyright case

      elektroakust. wrote:

      yes, kraftwerk seem to employ a whole army of people watching for their copyrights.
      ever tryed selling a kraftwerk bootleg on ebay? :D

      i never heard of "Planet Rock" being titled "Planet Rock / Trans Europe Express" though.
      not on any of the many rereleases...


      soundonsound.com/sos/nov08/articles/classictracks_1108.htm


      For mixing Kraftwerk's synthetic beats and simple melodies with New York rap, 'Planet Rock' can be credited with creating an entirely new genre: hip-hop. This is how it happened...


      "Bambaataa wanted to use the keyboardist who had played on a record that he liked, and this turned out to be John Robie, who is now my oldest friend. John played everything by hand, nothing was sequenced on 'Planet Rock'
    • Kraftwerk copyright case

      Dr. Schmidt wrote:

      Guckst du......

      discogs.com/release/437933



      hm, ok but thats written
      "Kraftwerk / Soulsonic Force - Trans-Europe Express / Planet Rock"
      because its a split A/B side 12" release.

      all the Tommy Boy re-presses and re-releases of the track on
      compilations dont have such double title...
      http ://www.discogs.com/artist/Afrika+Bambaataa+%26+Soulsonic+Force?anv=Afrika+Bambaataa+%26+The+Soulsonic+Force

      anyway... just wondering.
    • Kraftwerk copyright case

      Cozmo D wrote:


      lj wrote:

      as i understood it, the court has NOT AT ALL dealt kraftwerk a blow. ???
      it is quite possible that ALL sampling will be prohibited in the future.* before, this only meant sampling of a melody, but now even the "shortest parts" are included. and that can also mean a beat or just particles of a beat.


      *prohibited of course meaning that it is not totally impossible, but that you have to ask for permission and pay royalties.


      It has ALWAYS been the "shortest" parts when it comes to sampling SOUNDrights. What this court (as I understand it) is saying that the usage in question does not violate COPYright. In other words, they would not owe Kraftwerk publishing on the usage. I am pretty sure that they would still have to pay for the usage itself. Considering that all they sampled is a drumbeat I can see where no copyright would be infringed, since no melody was used.

      i hear what you are saying.

      just out of curiosity (if you are willing to disclose): how much money are we talking about?
      if you say 25g for that the game track, why exactly that amount?
      and when mos def did his version of jam on it, how much did he have to pay?
      or what about those sbassship / reeno remixes of destination earth?
      would it be different if you only sampled small parts instead of doing a full cover version?
    • Kraftwerk copyright case

      lj wrote:


      Cozmo D wrote:



      It has ALWAYS been the "shortest" parts when it comes to sampling SOUNDrights. What this court (as I understand it) is saying that the usage in question does not violate COPYright. In other words, they would not owe Kraftwerk publishing on the usage. I am pretty sure that they would still have to pay for the usage itself. Considering that all they sampled is a drumbeat I can see where no copyright would be infringed, since no melody was used.

      i hear what you are saying.

      just out of curiosity (if you are willing to disclose): how much money are we talking about?
      if you say 25g for that the game track, why exactly that amount?
      and when mos def did his version of jam on it, how much did he have to pay?
      or what about those sbassship / reeno remixes of destination earth?
      would it be different if you only sampled small parts instead of doing a full cover version?

      On the The Game track they are paying me $.05 per usage. The advance is based on 500,000 sales of the album, which thus equals $25,000.00.

      I have never been paid a dime for the Mos Def version. The guys who did it (Lyricist Lounge) are old acquaintances of mine, which I guess they believe gives them license to not account to me. I even helped them promote it... not a dime, not a dime, not a dime.

      As for the Dominance deal, that was a 50/50 license thing that Matthias and I worked out. Therefore there was no covering or sampling involved, as it was an actual Newcleus release.

      Sampling small parts of the beat will usually only cost you a sampling fee. However, if you sample parts of melody or anything musical like bass line and such, you will likely be paying royalties and publishing as well. Longer recognizable beat samples will probably catch you for royalties as well, which I'm sure is probably the case for the Kraftwerk sample in this instance. For the The Game track they are paying 50% publishing on top of the royalties. Of course for a cover you will pay full publishing. You will still have to pay for the samples as well if you use them.

      My rule of thumb is I will try my best to work with the small independent cats like me. I always try to get an advance as in many cases that is the only money that you are going to see, however for fellow DJ producers I will often do a 50/50 deal with no advance. The bigger you are though, the more I will be looking for. And if you're a big ass major (like Universal ;D) I'm gonna try my best to rape you! After all, you would do it to me in an instant! :D
    • Kraftwerk copyright case

      Cozmo D wrote:


      lj wrote:


      i hear what you are saying.

      just out of curiosity (if you are willing to disclose): how much money are we talking about?
      if you say 25g for that the game track, why exactly that amount?
      and when mos def did his version of jam on it, how much did he have to pay?
      or what about those sbassship / reeno remixes of destination earth?
      would it be different if you only sampled small parts instead of doing a full cover version?

      On the The Game track they are paying me $.05 per usage. The advance is based on 500,000 sales of the album, which thus equals $25,000.00.

      I have never been paid a dime for the Mos Def version. The guys who did it (Lyricist Lounge) are old acquaintances of mine, which I guess they believe gives them license to not account to me. I even helped them promote it... not a dime, not a dime, not a dime.

      As for the Dominance deal, that was a 50/50 license thing that Matthias and I worked out. Therefore there was no covering or sampling involved, as it was an actual Newcleus release.

      Sampling small parts of the beat will usually only cost you a sampling fee. However, if you sample parts of melody or anything musical like bass line and such, you will likely be paying royalties and publishing as well. Longer recognizable beat samples will probably catch you for royalties as well, which I'm sure is probably the case for the Kraftwerk sample in this instance. For the The Game track they are paying 50% publishing on top of the royalties. Of course for a cover you will pay full publishing. You will still have to pay for the samples as well if you use them.

      My rule of thumb is I will try my best to work with the small independent cats like me. I always try to get an advance as in many cases that is the only money that you are going to see, however for fellow DJ producers I will often do a 50/50 deal with no advance. The bigger you are though, the more I will be looking for. And if you're a big ass major (like Universal ;D) I'm gonna try my best to rape you! After all, you would do it to me in an instant! :D






      Correctly!!!!
    • Kraftwerk copyright case

      Couldn`t give a monkey`s myself unless of course it was a big selling release then I would want a %age. I think of it as flattery of the highest order when someone samples my material, means I must be doing something right.
      The music I love wouldn`t be what it is today if people weren`t sampling or recreating what came before and this applies especailly to Hip Hop in all its forms.
      I`ve had the entire Vocoderpella from Return Of The OVC ripped and used in someone elses track and it doesn`t bother me in the slightest
      :cylon: As True Pioneers We know Electro Is Aural Sex!!! :cylon:
    • Kraftwerk copyright case

      That's interesting topic and how is it about a remake of bassline, if you don't use all the track bassline, but part of it and play it again to your track..... That's interesting for me, because I sometimes use some part of oldschool track as homage to the good old days..... Electro Empire, my remake of Panic Zone with Arabian Prince is different case, I had an agreement with Arab and finally it doesn't came to sale

      PS: the question of remake is apllied to the parts of melody as well
    • Kraftwerk copyright case

      Just to chime in...
      I have over the years come to believe if you use any recognizable part of a persons copyrighted work you should:

      1) Credit them in the liner notes. Both publisher/s and writer/s.
      2) Attempt to contact the concerned parties and negotiate a deal
      3) Account to the parties.

      In the beginning when this was all being done underground and the business of rap and electro was tiny, it was less of a concern. In many cases some of the underground 12's that sampled hit originals added big numbers to the sales life of the original. "Roxanne, Roxanne" and the thirty answer records is an example :+) How much did Kraftwerk benefit from the Soul Sonic Force? I would argue a Hell Of A Lot, and vice versa. Not to say things I sampled back in the day were any less of an infringement but please believe me....when we got to the majors where money was being generated, we constantly paid out 10's of thousands of dollars per song in advances and what I considered at the time to be ridiculous writer shares.

      Bottom line write some "New Classics" of our own. Innovate don't duplicate. And if you do. Respect the architect.

      P.S. Peace to Cosmo. That was a pretty creative use of your master on that Game song. My favorite on his CD. That good music of yours is still inspiring musicians to this day. Much respect Cosmo.