Yes Or No - Street sounds Electro Chart

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

  • ghosttechnology;46082 wrote:

    Ah, but it works this way mate :

    You get a email with the contract sign it and send it back, you dont get the signed contract back untill you start asking for it (in my case)

    Fast you need to sign this quick!

    OMG KK SENDING!

    Can we have the hardcopy back?

    Sure

    Can we get our hardcopy now?

    It got lost

    Can we get our hardcopy back?

    It got lost

    This is redicolous can we get our hardcopy NOW!?

    Well ok..


    and it came after several months
  • morphogenetic;46071 wrote:

    Coz if you read my last post as well as any other, you can see i am trying to be as fair as possible to Morgan; even expressing my concerns and suspicions, i have been the most fair not simply saying he is a screwed up person and destroying his character.

    My only point is that stories have been told far and wide, and are all being expressed here in this thread...some could simply be jealousy, some could be legitimate. Seems you are very suspicious of every single person here claiming wrong doing, and that is not fair also.

    Believe when i say i want to see this all in the end be a giant misunderstanding, and for the record to be set straight that Morgan is a good fellow. I have put a lot of confidence in him, and i would rather not feel like i believed in a crook...something that no one is able to prove he is, or that he isn't. :-/

    This is a sad moment, and it really could go either way, we got duped, or through a giant misconception we have allowed a man's credibility to be dragged through the mud by ill conceived ideas.

    I am just as confused as anyone else, but again...let's not simply assume everyone is lying here, why so many, why so consistent with the same issues of not being paid, had copies sent, etc.?

    I stated my personal experience a few pages ago and do not care to write it out again. As far as what you and i talked about before...yes, i got paid...25 euros, which included a percentage taken out for manufacturing costs, which personally, was a bit weird since i have always understood that manufacturing costs come out of the sale price, not the artist's cut. I have yet to see another quarterly report, and hope i will...besides that, i have thought very highly of Morgan. Something that was always a conflict with many of my colleagues, as they continuously told me the stories that are now being aired live for you to read.


    You keep mentioning all of these stories about getting ripped off by Morgan in this thread. Including ones by you and Matthias. I STILL have not seen any such stories other than Deb's. ???
  • FUDOG;46074 wrote:

    Generally speaking manufacturing costs are the labels liability. If youre being paid a flat rate you should not expect a deduction for manufacturing (thats unethical). If youre being paid a royalty then the label will recover costs before paying out any artist royalty. Also advances are not recoverable from the label unless under special circumstances (unlikely when its a licensing deal (youve made the recording, so you've already upheld your end of the agreement, all you need to do is stick a DAT in the post and phone to make sure they received it)),


    any deviation from the norm should be picked up when reading the contract - if you want, PM me the contract and I'll take a look at it


    These are licenses, not recording agreements. I expect that nobody got paid a flat rate. I know that in my contract there was a packaging deduction. Usually I would turn it down but I know the extra mile that goes into Street Sounds packaging so I agreed. Advances are recoupable in every contract of every kind that I have ever seen, it's an advance, not a bonus. Therefore it IS recoverable, though it is NOT returnable. That means that your advance comes out of your royalties first before you see any money, but if you don't make enough royalties for them to recoup you do not owe them a dime.
  • Cozmo D;46090 wrote:

    These are licenses, not recording agreements. I expect that nobody got paid a flat rate. I know that in my contract there was a packaging deduction. Usually I would turn it down but I know the extra mile that goes into Street Sounds packaging so I agreed. Advances are recoupable in every contract of every kind that I have ever seen, it's an advance, not a bonus. Therefore it IS recoverable, though it is NOT returnable. That means that your advance comes out of your royalties first before you see any money, but if you don't make enough royalties for them to recoup you do not owe them a dime.



    I meant they cant ask for the advance back from you (normally the case, but in other industries this differs) - I worded it wrongly

    [edit]

    "Also advances are not recoverable"

    no i didnt lol, I wrote it exactly as it meant to be. the label cant recover the advance from you. OK I didnt make it clear. I should of said 'none returnable'


    24 euro or whatever the amount was - sound like a flat fee to me (when I say flat fee, I mean a single one off payment, just incase theres a lost in translation issue going on ;) )... what else would you call it? certainly not a fat fee. lol joking aside - i dont know, i havnt seen the contract or was party to the deal.

    A license is an agreement where by one party grants the other party certain rights regarding the property of one party for some kind of consideration... that consideration could be anything. But normally in a contract the simplest form is that of a flat monetary fee. This is why advances exist in a contract. Because without that exchange - there is no consideration, and thus no contract. Contracts are negotiable - but consideration must be in the contract, otherwise its not a contract.

    Furthermore that consideration dosnt have to be of a substantial value. it could be any nominal value - jsut so long as it can be shown that there has been due consideration.
  • N-ter;46066 wrote:

    We all spend our money and time and put alot of effort in our music...at least what i expect is to be treated with respect...and ignoring my email and not sending me at least one COPY of cd that im included is JOKE!

    Ill order my copy and pay for it.

    plus. PLEASE DONT TRY TO SELL ME THAT #PACKAGE GOT LOST# Bullshit.

    I know for a fact that Morgan gets proof of purchase for every copy that he sends out. Seems to me that it would be easily cleared up whether he sent yours or not if you asked to see it. Or are you saying that you have seen this proof of purchase and you just don't believe it? Do you actually believe that he sent out copies of CDs to everybody else, but for you he decided to instead get a photoshop expert to forge up a copy of the proof of purchase rather than send you a single CD?
  • FUDOG;46077 wrote:

    I AM FUCKING SHOCKED THAT A LABEL OF SUCH CALIBRE OPERATES LIKE THIS <-- yes Im shouting. I really cant believe these artist were left in the dark about what exactly was the deal they we're entering into.

    Why do you think that? EVERYBODY was sent a contract.

    FUDOG;46077 wrote:

    Youve also only got yourselves to blame if you didnt sign a contract first! Before rushing off to get a release... On the mighty Street Sounds no doubt.

    Everybody got a contract. Don't know if they signed it before or after they sent in their track, but I'm sure that Morgan would not have included the track without a signed contract.

    FUDOG;46077 wrote:

    I vote that theres a business section to the forum created were there are example contracts for various types of deals, licensing EP's, Compilation... Live Bookings etc and were people with more experiance can answer questions... like the production section but for the nitty gritty... that would be more useful than any plan for a fucking CHART for christ sake. (leaving out actual numbers ($$ ££ €€)... just talk about the mechanics of a deal)

    I TOTALLY second this!!! Let's see if it happens! ;D
  • lb.IP;46079 wrote:

    now if you tell MK you want a CD or payment out of the deal up front and he doesn't give it to you, then there's a problem, but after the fact just doesn't fly out in the real world i'm sorry to say, i know it sucks, i hate it, but that's the way world we live in ya'll.
    Everybody gets a ccpy of the CD and everybody gets paid royalties. EVERYBODY!


    lb.IP;46079 wrote:

    and MK f'd up by not getting contracts to everyone, saying what or not what people were to be given

    EVERYBODY got a contract!
  • ghosttechnology;46081 wrote:

    Same case here, i belive we discussed this over a cup of coffe once right?

    We got the package got lost line 3x in a row ;)



    Did you ask for proof of purchase? Or did you see it and are citing the mischievous phantom photoshop expert as well?

    BTW, aren't y'all both from Croatia? The land where you say that the streets are not made of asphalt? How good is the mail system there because I'm sensing a pattern. ;D
  • ghosttechnology;46082 wrote:

    Ah, but it works this way mate :

    You get a email with the contract sign it and send it back, you dont get the signed contract back untill you start asking for it (in my case)

    Fast you need to sign this quick!

    OMG KK SENDING!

    Can we have the hardcopy back?

    Sure

    Can we get our hardcopy now?

    It got lost

    Can we get our hardcopy back?

    It got lost

    This is redicolous can we get our hardcopy NOW!?

    Well ok..

    Ahhh... so you admit that you DID receive a contract! You negotiated it and signed it. So, your complaint is that it took so long to get the countersigned copies back. I agree that this is annoying, but unfortunately it's pretty usual in the music business. However, the fact that you signed a contract covers you, since it is the terms that you negotiated (and I'm sure that you kept a copy). Either Street Sounds operates by the terms of the contract that you signed, or they have no contract and thus no rights to your track.
  • morphogenetic;46071 wrote:

    I stated my personal experience a few pages ago and do not care to write it out again.

    Santino, I just went through every post by you in this thread and I don't see any story about you getting ripped off by Morgan.

    morphogenetic;46071 wrote:

    As far as what you and i talked about before...yes, i got paid...25 euros, which included a percentage taken out for manufacturing costs, which personally, was a bit weird since i have always understood that manufacturing costs come out of the sale price, not the artist's cut.

    Yes, there was a packaging deduction in my contract and I gather yours as well. Didn't you read it? And stop thinking of yourself as an artist in this instance, you are a label owner. Be empowered!

    morphogenetic;46071 wrote:

    I have yet to see another quarterly report, and hope i will.

    Yes, ! wholeheartedly agree that the accounting has been sorely lacking. Morgan really needs to step up on that. However, that is a symptom that seems to be rampant in the independent music scene and especially in the Electro scene.

    morphogenetic;46071 wrote:

    i have thought very highly of Morgan. Something that was always a conflict with many of my colleagues, as they continuously told me the stories that are now being aired live for you to read.

    What stories? About late countersigned contracts and lost CDs? COME ON! Still waiting on all the rip off tales! ???


    FUDOG;46091 wrote:

    24 euro or whatever the amount was - sound like a flat fee to me (when I say flat fee, I mean a single one off payment, just incase theres a lost in translation issue going on ;) )... what else would you call it? certainly not a fat fee. lol joking aside - i dont know, i havnt seen the contract or was party to the deal.

    Well, if the CD sells less than 1000 copies, is then pro-rated 20 ways, then subject to a packaging deduction, the figure can get mighty low. Not privy to Santino's deal or have the actual figures or statement in front of me tho.


    FUDOG;46091 wrote:

    A license is an agreement where by one party grants the other party certain rights regarding the property of one party for some kind of consideration... that consideration could be anything. But normally in a contract the simplest form is that of a flat monetary fee. This is why advances exist in a contract. Because without that exchange - there is no consideration, and thus no contract. Contracts are negotiable - but consideration must be in the contract, otherwise its not a contract.

    Furthermore that consideration dosnt have to be of a substantial value. it could be any nominal value - jsut so long as it can be shown that there has been due consideration.

    I would never recommend to anyone to take a flat fee for their master (or copyright or publishing) in a music contract. They are ripping themselves off if they do. In fact, I would consider anyone who would offer such a deal to be a crook, and advise against doing a deal with them entirely. Perhaps you are thinking of synchronization fees for film, TV or video games? Or maybe a sampling fee? If they can offer you a flat fee for your property, they can offer you the same amount as an advance against royalties. Otherwise, they are just looking to rob you blind.
  • You misunderstand me. I was saying that the simplest way to give consideration in a contract (any contract, not music per sé) is with a flat fee... In music contracts thats normally done as an advance.

    I havnt seen Morphs contract with SS, so I dont know what the deal was.. and all he said was he got paid 24 euros or whatever... no mention of it being an advance. Hence why I said it looks like a flat fee (more of a question). Im just reading the words on the forum and taking them at face value.
  • Cozmo D;46095 wrote:

    Everybody gets a ccpy of the CD and everybody gets paid royalties. EVERYBODY!



    EVERYBODY got a contract!


    start calling you Papa Cozmo, keeping all us whipper snappers in line ;) ;)

    just say shut the f up lb. i'm cool with that :D

    beginning to think i made the right decision, not following some peoples advice, and becoming a professional musician :) teachas get ripped off right out in the open, not all this back door shadey shite :)
    "There are no problems, only solutions".
  • Coz, the only thing i am saying is that there are many different stories here, all essentially talking about wrong doing on Morgan's behalf....whether its chart manipulation, not receiving samples, not getting paid, etc...i personally have not had a truly bad experience with him. The only annoying thing was getting paid only 24 euros for the remix, and having so many deductions, which as a label owner, i found ridiculous...call me a 21st century label owner or even naive, but costs for manufacturing come out of the cut the label gets, not the artist....i would never charge an artist for anything related to the pressing, we work out a cut deal on the profit, period.

    The other issue was the angry email when i said i could not go ahead with the AR deal we talked about, and he wrote about how unprofessional that was, and how much time he wasted talking about FBI to others in lieu of this said deal...i went through some very rough times financially this past year, and didnt need anyone hassling me because i couldnt follow up with something i had not given the go ahead on.

    I felt at the time he was being very money-centric, and that rubbed me the wrong way. Since then, i couldnt help but feel that our various times that we charted #2, that somehow we never went up further, unlike most others, because of him playing politics. He has reassured me that was not true, and perhaps it is not; i have no way of knowing. It doesnt even have anything to do with being "number one", its just the idea that if he truly was manipulating the chart in general, then he might have done it to get back at me as well. It wasnt hard to think he was mad at me since he stopped calling completely, when he used to call me at least once a month, or write an email....communication went dead.

    There were some issues when i was asked to mix Vol. 2, and i am not gonna go into that because it is a long story; needless to say, that wasnt an enjoyable experience, and i wound up declining the offer because he gave me a week to do the whole thing ( ridiculous ), and then said it would be compared with another entry, then decided on ( rude and disrespectful - did any other dj have his work competing with another entry? no! )...

    My stories are honestly petty compared to a lot of what is heard here, and that is perhaps because overall i have had what i thought was a good relationship with Morgan. It just has been difficult hearing so many people i trust calling him a crook, and claiming things going on and what have you since i have known him. It has made me weary of him to some degree and the couple little things that went on between us sorta reinforced the idea that perhaps Morgan was just looking out for himself.
    Fundamental Bass Intelligence Recordings - fbirecordings.net
    technoBass.net - technobass.net

    Out now on 10" vinyl and poster: Umwelt vs. Morphogenetic - Renegade Electro Corporation, on New Flesh Remix...get it now from Templeplate.
  • FUDOG;46100 wrote:

    You misunderstand me. I was saying that the simplest way to give consideration in a contract (any contract, not music per sé) is with a flat fee... In music contracts thats normally done as an advance.

    If I misunderstand you imagine what others here might think. After all, weren't we just talking about a section on business matters because it is sorely needed? In the music industry (where royalties exist unlike in other types of businesses) a flat fee is nearly the opposite of an advance. A flat fee means that is the entire extent of your compensation, while an advance is a guarantee of a minimum proportion of compensation with no maximum limit. The LAST thing that we want to do is give people here the perception that agreeing to a flat fee for their property is acceptable. It is not.

    Try to stop talking about contracts in general because those general terms and conditions do not apply in the music business. That is why it is essential to hire an entertainment lawyer rather than one from another field of law when dealing with music contracts and transactions. The first lawyer that I ever hired when I realized I was getting ripped off was a regular business lawyer, and he did nothing but make things worse because he totally misinterpreted our contract.
  • FUDOG;46102 wrote:

    and on a side note - I think anyone is lucky to get an advance these days given the state of sales in the music industry.


    Depends on who you're dealing with and in what genre. In Electro it seems to be pretty common to try to get away with not paying ANYTHING. Probably why most of the peeps here seem to have such a poor concept of the music business and contracts. Funny thing is that Morgan seems to be the rare (only?) exception and is actually paying EVERYBODY yet he's the one who is getting called a crook. ::)

    I will NOT do a compilation without an advance. Period!
  • morphogenetic;46104 wrote:

    The only annoying thing was getting paid only 24 euros for the remix, and having so many deductions, which as a label owner, i found ridiculous...call me a 21st century label owner or even naive, but costs for manufacturing come out of the cut the label gets, not the artist....i would never charge an artist for anything related to the pressing, we work out a cut deal on the profit, period.

    Santino, compilation deals usually have packaging deductions, as do artist contracts. You can usually negotiate them out, and I usually do, but Street Sounds does pretty elaborate packaging so I let it slide. Again, did you read your contract? If so, why did you not balk at the deductions? Unless you are saying that these deductions did not appear in your contract. ???

    I agree, for deals with producers (not artists) I will split the net down the middle. I have done this since the late '80s, and when I first started doing it other industry people thought I was crazy! I am glad to say that now it is pretty common amongst small independent labels, though it is still far from the industry standard. However, i have never seen a compilation done like that, and think that probably the math would be prohibitive.