Electro? Electro-Funk?

  • Quote from bhose;64574

    ...which was categorised as Krautrock in the 70's, not electro as that term was not used in the 70's. 'Electro' is a shortened form for ELECTRO FUNK.

    Kraftwerk in HINDSIGHT is/was 'Electro' as the term is used today, outside of electro-FUNK (HIP HOP).

    That is not true. There were styles such as "Electro Wave" back in the 70s, and many others that referred to Electronic music as Electro. More than likely the word actually came from "Electro-Acoustic", which is how the synthesizer was introduced, and the way Electronic compositions were termed before it could be conceived that Electro-nic music could be its own genre altogether.

    This idea that Electro is short for Electro Funk is something people got from Streetsounds, but is a huge source of confusion as to what Electro really is, and what the word really means.

    daro: i like you man, you know whats up! ;) ( Sorry i rehashed what you said, had not seen your post )

    @Matt: Thanks for that, i wish more people would see it. The confusion holds things back a lot.

  • Quote from elektroakust.;64630


    History needs to be re-written... :ugly:

    Germans attempting to re-write history? Who would have thought!

    155 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

    Never to the left of a yoga mat!

  • Quote from binalog;64631

    I don't know guys... I mean i'm 42 years old and i've been listening to this kind of music since my brother brought home "The Renegades Of Funk" 12inch (that was back in 84). I have always known this music as "electro-funk" and i have always understood it as a sub-genre of hip-hop, plus i have always linked the "electro" term as a short one of the "electro-funk".

    Just my 2 cents. ;) ;D


    Bambaataa's/Baker's music came from the Hiphop side of things. No doubt about that.

    The headache is about the whole "Electro" terminology and automaticly starts when you
    try to look at the complete picture of music style evolution till today (not just looking at one
    specific style in one country or era) and how terms were used and "misused" at certains
    points... and then developed further on from that in various directions. And then trying to
    figure out how terms SHOULD have been used, so the complete picture would still make
    sense in the end. Of course not everyone sees a need for that headache. ;D


    @Rob
    You are funny and very knowledgeable about electronic music besides your favorite compilation label.
    ;D ;D ;D ;D :*

  • Quote from 155;64646

    Germans attempting to re-write history? Who would have thought!

    155 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

    Verging on a John Terry*style, embarrassment mate..
    So predictable

  • I've been talking to a big Kraftwerk fan recently and asked him about the "Electro" term
    in connection with the early days of Kraftwerk. He hinted me to an article from the
    german Spiegel magazin (mainstream media) from 1975.

    1974~75 Kraftwerk released and toured with their first formostly electronic
    instrumentated album "Autobahn". The title song got them a little breakthrough in
    the USA (10 weeks in the pop charts, peaking at No. 25).

    The article refers to their sound as "Elektro" several times.

    http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-41521160.html

    Quote

    "Die Musikbranche staunt über Spitzenerfolge westdeutscher Popmusik-Bands in den
    USA, dabei wird die Art ihres Elektro-Klanges vielfach überhört."

    "Populären Elektro-Cocktails von der Art des "Autobahn"-Stückes..."

    Although at the same time they also call Kraftwerk, CAN and Tangerine Dream
    "a special kind of Krautrock", "esotheric electronic" and even "Trance-Music". (1975!)

    Would be interesting to find more articles from those days and a few years later 1975~1982.
    (Especially american articles describing the "Autobahn" sound.)


    Not saying that this proves that there was a certain style promoted only as "Electro" prior
    to 1983, but it's pretty clear that the term was definitly around and used in those days.
    At least over here...

  • Quote from elektroakust.;64662

    Not saying that this proves that there was a certain style promoted only as "Electro" prior to 1983, but it's pretty clear that the term was definitly around and used in those days. At least over here...

    Why it so impotant? I think it's absolutely irrelevant for description what electro is! All terms formed much later styles itself. When Kraftwerk created electro formula, it still be electronic/synthetic pop untill Bambaata created his mashup and call it electrofunk.

    Quote from elektroakust.;64662

    Although at the same time they also call Kraftwerk, CAN and Tangerine Dream "a special kind of Krautrock", "esotheric electronic" and even "Trance-Music". (1975!) Would be interesting to find more articles from those days and a few years later 1975~1982. (Especially american articles describing the "Autobahn" sound.)

    Official Kraftwerk never be a Krautrock group, they don't use rock instruments and don't play any rock forms. In world of EM lovers, Kraftwerk's music before they start pop knowing as Dusseldorf School of EM (Cluster, Harmonia, etc.) which means quirky, experimental rhythmic pieces with characteristic mechanical "motorik" rhythms.

  • Quote from wex;64665

    Why it so impotant? I think it's absolutely irrelevant for description what electro is! All terms formed much later styles itself. When Kraftwerk created electro formula, it still be electronic/synthetic pop untill Bambaata created his mashup and call it electrofunk.

    It's only important if you wonder about the roots of the short term "Electro" in music
    and why Bambaataa called his music Electro-Funk in 1982.


    Quote from wex;64665

    Official Kraftwerk never be a Krautrock group, they don't use rock instruments and don't play any rock forms.

    In their early phase Kraftwerk mostly used traditional rock instruments
    such as electric guitar, drums, organ, flute etc.


    "Kakteen, Wüste, Sonne" (1971)
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  • Quote

    It's only important if you wonder about the roots of the short term "Electro" in music
    and why Bambaataa called his music Electro-Funk in 1982.

    Yep, history is interesting, but irrelivant in this case. Probaly term rise when a lot of electro production come to world and people realized was electro is: created by Kraftwerk, pushed by AB, Cybotron/Atkins etc

    Quote

    In their early phase Kraftwerk mostly used traditional rock instruments
    such as electric guitar, drums, organ, flute etc.

    I'm talking about official kraftwerk, not pre-Kraftwerk Kraftwerk. There are no krautROCK in official discography!

  • Quote from wex;64684

    Yep, history is interesting, but irrelivant in this case. Probaly term rise when a lot of electro production come to world and people realized was electro is: created by Kraftwerk, pushed by AB, Cybotron/Atkins etc

    I'm talking about official kraftwerk, not pre-Kraftwerk Kraftwerk. There are no krautROCK in official discography!


    Have you read the full thread?
    If we're discussing the origin of terms, history can't be irrelevant.

    And sorry, even Kraftwerk can't re-write history. ;D

  • Quote from wex;64684

    Yep, history is interesting, but irrelivant in this case. Probaly term rise when a lot of electro production come to world and people realized was electro is: created by Kraftwerk, pushed by AB, Cybotron/Atkins etc

    I'm talking about official kraftwerk, not pre-Kraftwerk Kraftwerk. There are no krautROCK in official discography!

    Wex, you really need to do your homework on Electronic music history man! How can you say that Kraftwerk 1 is not Krautrock? and more importantly, how can you say history is irrelevant? If the word Electro was used before the 80s, then obviously that means something...the history of our music is the most important thing for us to figure out, otherwise, we are like a sailing ship without a compass! ;)

    Why is it so hard to see that 80s "Electro" is Electro-Funk, and is a sub-genre of Electro-nic music?

  • Quote

    How can you say that Kraftwerk 1 is not Krautrock?

    Where ??? I can't say it. But there are no this stuff in Der Catalog! Why? Because is not official, how i know Rolf&Florian don't like talking about this period and staying out of it.

    Quote

    and more importantly, how can you say history is irrelevant? If the word Electro was used before the 80s, then obviously that means something...the history of our music is the most important thing for us to figure out, otherwise, we are like a sailing ship without a compass!

    The history of term is irrelevant, not history.

    Quote

    Why is it so hard to see that 80s "Electro" is Electro-Funk, and is a sub-genre of Electro-nic music?

    Yep, and ...?

  • Quote from Starchild;64690

    Wex, you really need to do your homework on Electronic music history man! How can you say that Kraftwerk 1 is not Krautrock? and more importantly, how can you say history is irrelevant? If the word Electro was used before the 80s, then obviously that means something...the history of our music is the most important thing for us to figure out, otherwise, we are like a sailing ship without a compass! ;)

    Why is it so hard to see that 80s "Electro" is Electro-Funk, and is a sub-genre of Electro-nic music?


    I'm not sure that is what is being questioned, a superficial look at the history of music would indicate that electronic music existed for some time, and you are right that mapping the history accurately is important. The issue appears to centre around the understanding of the term 'Electro-Funk' and how it is understood by people in different countries. This thread is a reminder of how contested labels are, and equally how important they can quickly become in establishing narratives (especially when linked to issues of identity).

    Perhaps the question needs to be adjusted slighty. Given that the technology was used by different groups of musicians, what are the identifiable factors (if indeed there are any) that may have contributed to some musicians producing music that sounded a particular way (or contributed to it having certain qualities), given that the technology may have been available to more than one group? I wonder if there are deeper questions here that are being avoided.

    More broadly, no one would deny the importance of Kraftwerk's sound, but that may not have extended to an embrace of their wider aesthetic. I think this may be important as it explains why their musical importance diminishes after 'Computer World', and why 'Electric Cafe' had less of an impact (recognising the exceptions of 'Tour De France', 'Music Non Stop' and 'Boing Boom Tschak'). Musically the wider world had caught up and was now going to run off in a multitude of directions, many of which they could never have imagined.

    Matt: I'm glad that you found the comment funny, and appreciated it was intended to be humourous. I'm confused as to why you make reference to my having a favourite compilation label, which presumably is aimed at 'Streetsounds'? ('Streetsounds' also issued 12" singles too). Perhaps you could provide evidence to support your assertion?

    Daro: Equating or comparing me with John Terry is simply crass.

    155 :)

    Never to the left of a yoga mat!

  • 155, I appreciate your response, and I know that my reply to wex may suggest I was a bit confused as to the theme of the thread, but I would like to point out that the bigger question is not the use or origin of the term "electro-funk", but more the origin of the word electro, and how it is used or maybe even misused. My argument has always been that it is not being misused as long as it relates to electronic music. People in the 70s referred to electronic music as electro, and it is only till Streetsounds came around that there seems to be confusion, and one single genre ( us ) trying to claim electro as only one thing.

    Electro funk in my eyes always has been, and always will be ok, as are terms like electro bass or electro pop. It has always been my belief that as long as we don't classify our type of electro as something like electro bass, it will always be lost in the mess of things, as people have nothing to direct them to what style we do specifically. That wouldnt be the case if other genres of electronic music did not call their music electro-----, but they do, and it has only helped to keep us back, as so many are very stubborn to continue calling our style electro only, and are very elitist towards anyone else calling their stuff electro. It is specially a problem when new members sign up here, and get turned away by nasty attitudes. We could grow, but a lack of understanding, like a ship without a compass if you will, keeps us from moving forward.

  • Quote from Starchild;64703

    155, I appreciate your response, and I know that my reply to wex may suggest I was a bit confused as to the theme of the thread, but I would like to point out that the bigger question is not the use or origin of the term "electro-funk", but more the origin of the word electro, and how it is used or maybe even misused. My argument has always been that it is not being misused as long as it relates to electronic music. People in the 70s referred to electronic music as electro, and it is only till Streetsounds came around that there seems to be confusion, and one single genre ( us ) trying to claim electro as only one thing.

    Electro funk in my eyes always has been, and always will be ok, as are terms like electro bass or electro pop. It has always been my belief that as long as we don't classify our type of electro as something like electro bass, it will always be lost in the mess of things, as people have nothing to direct them to what style we do specifically. That wouldnt be the case if other genres of electronic music did not call their music electro-----, but they do, and it has only helped to keep us back, as so many are very stubborn to continue calling our style electro only, and are very elitist towards anyone else calling their stuff electro. It is specially a problem when new members sign up here, and get turned away by nasty attitudes. We could grow, but a lack of understanding, like a ship without a compass if you will, keeps us from moving forward.


    WELL SAID!!!!

  • Wex..

    Kraftwerk 1
    Kraftwerk 2
    Ralf and Florian
    are all official KW albums !
    They used flutes and acoustic guitars on Autobahn also.
    Ralf Hutter is rumoured to be looking at these earlier albums with a view to re-issuing.

    They tend to be overlooked because they are considered to be more experimental and not totally electronic.
    Still official though...

    :beam:

  • BTW..

    You can blame Streetsounds for a lot of this confusion.
    Most of the original Electro album series was clearly hip hop...just made with electronic instruments (as these were becoming more affordable and within reach of the rappers/dj's)
    (As soon as samplers became popular the hip hop heads soon turned to using breaks n beats from the OG tracks.)
    Artists such as the B-Boys, Davy DMX, RUN-DMC etc etc were clearly not Electro...but were sold here as such.

    Nu4 is a classic example..since when has Chuck D been electro ?

  • Quote from Starchild;64703

    155, I appreciate your response, and I know that my reply to wex may suggest I was a bit confused as to the theme of the thread, but I would like to point out that the bigger question is not the use or origin of the term "electro-funk", but more the origin of the word electro, and how it is used or maybe even misused. My argument has always been that it is not being misused as long as it relates to electronic music. People in the 70s referred to electronic music as electro, and it is only till Streetsounds came around that there seems to be confusion, and one single genre ( us ) trying to claim electro as only one thing.

    Electro funk in my eyes always has been, and always will be ok, as are terms like electro bass or electro pop. It has always been my belief that as long as we don't classify our type of electro as something like electro bass, it will always be lost in the mess of things, as people have nothing to direct them to what style we do specifically. That wouldnt be the case if other genres of electronic music did not call their music electro-----, but they do, and it has only helped to keep us back, as so many are very stubborn to continue calling our style electro only, and are very elitist towards anyone else calling their stuff electro. It is specially a problem when new members sign up here, and get turned away by nasty attitudes. We could grow, but a lack of understanding, like a ship without a compass if you will, keeps us from moving forward.

    Very well said. :)

    I just don't agree with this bit:

    Quote from Starchild;64703

    one single genre ( us )

    As the many previous discussions in our little Electro-Babylon ;D here have shown, this community in itself is already a patchwork of people from very different backgrounds. For example you don't need to be influenced in any way by the electronic version of Hiphop/Rap music to find yourself in our little scene.
    (And i'm only talking about the main "Electro"-sections of this forum.)

    What brings different music styles together over here are a few elements, like the use of broken beats & the use of certain drummachines etc which have never been the exclusive domain of one single electronic genre/subgenre.

    Thats what makes it hard to even try to raise a flag on this ship... :)

  • all you guys don't have a clue! here are the real Roots! THIS is the only Track qualified to be called Electro! OK? :cyborg:

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  • Quote from Starchild;64703

    155, I appreciate your response, and I know that my reply to wex may suggest I was a bit confused as to the theme of the thread, but I would like to point out that the bigger question is not the use or origin of the term "electro-funk", but more the origin of the word electro, and how it is used or maybe even misused. My argument has always been that it is not being misused as long as it relates to electronic music. People in the 70s referred to electronic music as electro, and it is only till Streetsounds came around that there seems to be confusion, and one single genre ( us ) trying to claim electro as only one thing.

    Electro funk in my eyes always has been, and always will be ok, as are terms like electro bass or electro pop. It has always been my belief that as long as we don't classify our type of electro as something like electro bass, it will always be lost in the mess of things, as people have nothing to direct them to what style we do specifically. That wouldnt be the case if other genres of electronic music did not call their music electro-----, but they do, and it has only helped to keep us back, as so many are very stubborn to continue calling our style electro only, and are very elitist towards anyone else calling their stuff electro. It is specially a problem when new members sign up here, and get turned away by nasty attitudes. We could grow, but a lack of understanding, like a ship without a compass if you will, keeps us from moving forward.

    Starchild.

    Thank you for taking the time to write a response. It appears that we are not actually in disagreement, perhaps our differences are more about shading and emphasis. My only concern with not recognising the value of sub labels is that the use of a generic all inclusive term potentially obscures the contribution made to the music scene by individuals and communities who have previously had their musical achievements subsumed by a larger all encompassing narrative.

    155 :)

    Never to the left of a yoga mat!

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