Posts by Cozmo D

OK, I see the forum is finally stable again so I'll pick this back up.

Wex is gonna LOVE this one!

"I'm Not A Robot"

When Wex was accusing me of using a Kraftwerk Rhythmic Structure for Newcleus I dismissed it right out of hand. Though I was quite impressed and inspired by Kraftwerk's sounds I was rarely impressed by their music... I mostly found them to be boring. However, when Wex said that, I remembered that I did out and out steal the Hi-Hat rhythm for "I'm Not A Robot" from Kraftwerk, though I didn't remember what track. I thought that it might have been TEE but a quick listen ruled that out immediately.

Then I remembered. Though I loved "Numbers", it was basically just a beat. The SONG that impressed me most on that album was "Home Computer". That song has probably the only Kraftwerk bass line that could ever be considered halfway "funky". It came flooding back to me that not only did I cop the hi-hat pattern, I bit the whole damm song! I made the beat of "I'm Not A Robot" empty spaced and staccato like a KW beat and the bass line is an obvious bite of "Home Computer" restructured into 2 bars. I used a KW like spooky string line. Even more wild to me is the fact that I didn't use any chords. I used chords in all of my songs, it's obvious that I didn't for "Robot" in order to get more of the Kraftwerk feel. No solo either, every one of the other non-rap (and even some of the rap) Newcleus songs had them. The vocal style (also used in "Computer Age") was borrowed from Kraftwerk. Even the 1 bar 808 breaks were bitten from "Home Computer"

So Wex, you're absolutely right, at least for that one song I used a Kraftwerk Rhythmic Structure.

The forum is dragging like crazy and I'm not at home. I will try to post something else later if the forum is running better.

Quote from lj;65099

Haha .. awesome!

So wouldn't that historically be the very first diss on a hip hop record?

I don't know, but I doubt it.

Quote from lj;65084

Oh man, "Must be the music" is such a great tune! never saw that connection.

I didn't mean that those tracks specifically were inspirations but those kinds of tracks. "No More Runnin'" may actually have been written before those cuts came out. In fact, I believe that "Jam-On's Revenge" is probably earlier than them as well. I don't think that I was inspired by any specific track for "No More Runnin'", but I consider those to be in a somewhat similar vein.

Quote from lj;65084

Were you guys also responsible for the music behind Dynamic Breakers - Dynamic? I love how you have both synth bass and real bass in there (the synth sounds more like a pro one than a 303 on that one though?).

Yeah, that was us. Nah, that was a 303, the Pro One played the sequence.

Quote from lj;65084

One more question : When you say you were inspired by funk/R&B tunes, was the choice of the 303 due to low price and availabilty? I'm asking cause a lot of funk band at that time were probably using a Minimoog for bass and I was wondering if you deliberately chose not to.

Yeah, the price had a LOT to do with it ($150), but much more important was the programability. Remember, there was no MIDI yet, so the 303 freed me up from relying on a bass player just like the 808 freed me up from relying on a drummer. Then I could program a sequence or 2 on the Pro One and be free to play keys on the RS-09. Couldn't do that on a minimoog (and I couldn't afford one if you could).

Quote from lj;65084

P.S.: Was that Sugarhill part on "Jam on revenge" meant as an homage or as mockery?

Mockery? LOL!!! Those were INSULTS man!!!

Quote from wex;65083

I'm supposed that you "not interested" becouse it's consequence from your answers: You don't know some difinition for EM, names and call not disco composition - disco

Right, you sit here over 30 years after the fact and tell me, A person who DJed Disco when Disco was king, who actually has Disco in his name, that you know better than me what is and is not Disco. You obviously know everything about music and I (and everybody else who might possibly disagree with you) know nothing. I bow in deference to your brilliance.

Quote from wex;65083

Can you add some more names and their style of EM on your choice from 70s to our time?

No, I'm done playing your games and jumping through hoops for you. You know it all, I know nothing. I concede.

Quote from wex;65082

Ok, as I thought. Experimental and Sci-Fi music - it's isn't names of style, it emotional descriptive attribute. Music that produce for Sci-Fi movies = Sci-Fi Electronic - it's very funny.

The point was that all of them made very different types of music, I don't care what you decide to call it. Do you deny this? You are seriously hung up on stupid labels man.

Quote from wex;65068

I'm rely on your responses and find out your knowledge about subject.

Then you shouldn't have made a definitive statement like I'm "not interested" in something. You had no evidence of that at all from my responses.

Quote from wex;65066

which exactly?

The Barron Brothers made Experimental and Sci-Fi music. Wendy Carlos made Classical. Beaver and Krause made what today would probably be considered Avant-Garde Jazz.

OK, that thread has me doing a lot of retrospective remembering anyway, so I guess now would be a good time. Let's start with "Jam-On's Revenge" (original title).

The idea was born out of Funkadelic's "Let's Take It To The Stage", in which they snap on other groups and call them names. The idea to use munchkin voices came from Funkadelic as well, they did it on a few tracks.

Since I had no intention of doing this track for eventual release, I was just fukkin around with it as a joke, I didn't bother trying to make an original track. I took a track that we had already done, "No More Runnin'", which was based on a 2 bar main groove and 2 bar change arrangement, and used the first bar of each, and that became the arrangement for "Jam On's Revenge". I replaced the guitar with a synth sequence. The inspiration for "No More Runnin'" was tracks like Secret Weapon's "Must Be The Music" and T.S. Monk's "Bon Bon Vie". At the time both tracks were 808 drums and 303 bass, and used the same first bar patterns.

When we went to drop "Jam-On's Revenge" on 24 track we sped it up. Also, I had forgotten the 303 at home, so Chilly B played the bass on bass guitar. Plus, we had changed it to a space theme from a Western theme

2 years later, when we were working on the album, when we went in to lay "No More Runnin'" I purposely had Chilly B play bass instead to give it a more conventional Funk/R&B feel. I also reprogrammed the drums on DMX instead of 808 for the same reason.

So, "No More Runnin'" and "Jam On Revenge" first began as the same Funk/R&B inspired jam.

Original "Jam-On's Revenge"

Original studio arrangement of "No More Runnin'"

Quote from elektroakust.;65019

Another example of that style... (1981)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5L8OGz60NM

Now, THAT is NOT Disco.

Quote from elektroakust.;65019

In "Disco" i always hear that thick warm atmosphere, which you don't have in
Techno or Trance or some sorts of House.

There is all kinds of Disco, some with thin, cold atmosphere and some with no atmosphere at all.

Quote from wex;65062

and how you call their music?

I call it electronic music because it was made with electronic means, as opposed to acoustic music that was made with acoustic means. It was not a genre of music, as these people made very different types of music. It's like saying Country music and Jazz are the same genre because they are made acoustically.

Quote from wex;65062

it just small talk, as we chat, I'll understand what your's knowledge background, if you don't mind.

I mind you saying that I am not interested in something as if you know me or can read my mind. I have always been into all kinds of music and musical technologies and the histories of both and I believe that my work is testament to that fact.

Quote from wex;65062

is there anything in common between your music that brings together the same title for it?

Other than the title Electronic Dance Music, I don't think so. I make funky music, KW does not. I make black music, KW does not. I make Hip-Hop music, KW does not. My drum programming employs intricate funk beats often with plenty of rolls. KW does not. I could go on and on...

Quote from wex;65034

So why you don't know history of it? Prove it, say the names of most famous americans in EM, before i was born

Quote from wex;65048

in general

Louis Barron, Bebe barron, Paul Beaver, Bernie Krause, Wendy Carlos, Benjamin Folkman, Rachel Elkind... Names that I vaguely remembered and had to dig up to make sure that I was correct (except for Wendy Carlos of course).

Don't know what this proves or why i should have to prove anything to you anyway. Bottom line is, I borrowed very little from Kraftwerk and my music sounds very little like Kraftwerk. My rhythmic structure is my own, which is why there is not one group out there that sounds similar to my work. You can call my music Electro if you want, I really am glad that you do, but to say that I follow a formula that was started by Kraftwerk is not true!

Quote from wex;65035

If it's first in history, then KW was first.

My music doesn't sound a damm thing like Kraftwerk, sorry. There is no similarity between their rhythmic structure and mine.

Quote from wex;65034

So why you don't know history of it? Prove it, say the names of most famous americans in EM, before i was born

Are you talking about EM in general, or some make believe genre that you think existed?

Quote from wex;65030

Ok what's the first track with the Brooklyn street rockin' structure?

Newcleus, Featuring Cozmo & The Jam-On Production Crew. - "Jam-On Revenge". 1983

That's when MY structure was born to the public! Show me ANY other track that followed a formula similar to mine!

Quote from wex;65026

more then 60 years ago. You don't know it, because you don't interest in EM, that side what you know from 70s just a pop side pushing by KW.

EM is a 60 year old term? Get outta here! LOL! Electronic Music as a vague term for... Electronic Music, yes. But as a genre? Please!

And who are you to say that I am not interested in Electronic Music? I bet that I was studying and seeking it out before you were born!

Quote from wex;65024

You mostly used electro rhythmic structure, that different from funk rhythmic structure. "No More Runnin'" was more R&B inspired. - Yep, not electro. No matter what music you was inspered, matter what happened.

NO! I was using a Brooklyn street rockin' structure. The beats were straight from funky breaks that I played as a DJ. The Bass lines were ALL Funk inspired. Only the arpeggios and sequences came from Electronic Music, and they were MUCH more from Moroder and Jarre than Kraftwerk, so there was no Electro Rhytmic Structure (since you guys don't consider Moroder and Jarre Electro)... unless I invented it.

I found Kraftwerk to be boring for the most part, though I was impressed by the ideas used in TEE, and I loved "Numbers". However, I don't think that I ever used any of the ideas of TEE, except I bit the hi-hat pattern for "I'm Not A Robot". I bit the rhythmic noises ideas of "Numbers" for "Computer Age", and maybe the vocoder a bit, but that's it. My usage of pads is straight from Gary Numan, and he wasn't Electro either.

Quote from wex;65021

Absolutely not, it's called EM, not exactly Berlin School, but it's KS!

And when did these terms develop? 20 years ago? Maybe? The track is over 30 years old and when it was released it was considered Disco. Calling it whatever you want now will NEVER CHANGE THAT FACT!!!

Quote from elektroakust.;65019

Nah, no way.
"Richard Wahnfried" was a various artist project by Klaus Schulze...
he is as far away from disco as you can get.
Must have been the only track were he actually ever used some sort of beat.

If any label would fit for this track... it might be an early "Trance" track.
("Trance" as in hypnotic chilling techno... not the cheesy dumb pop crap that "Trance"
became in the mid 90s.)

Another example of that style... (1981)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUiA0UOKIlc

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You can call it whatever you want now, but I'm telling you that when it came out it was considered Disco.

Quote from Cozmo D;65017

We called a lot of our music Funk. Hip-Hop didn't exist as a music term yet. "Automan" was a New Wave track, but Jonathan Fearing took out all of the synth rock elements. Frankly, I never did care but so much for labels, and never really tried to fit our music into genres. We were making music that we liked that we figured would make people dance.

However... "Jam On Revenge", "Jam On It", "Destination Earth", "I'm Not A Robot" were all mostly Funk inspired. "No More Runnin'" was more R&B inspired. "Automan" was atraight up New Wave, and "Computer Age" was probably the only track that could be called mostly Electro inspired, as I definitely borrowed plenty of ideas from "Numbers" for it.

But you know what? To be honest, on almost every one of these tracks I was trying to make electronic music. Funky music yes, but I wanted it to have an electronic, futuristic feel. I have to be honest with myself. The only exception would be "No More Runnin". The work of Moroder, Jarre, Kraftwerk and Numan was never very far from my mind.