Posts by Cozmo D

    Quote from wex;64882

    There is the defenition of Electro: "Electro is when the drum patterns tend to be electronic emulations of breakbeats, with kick drums, and usually a snare or clap accenting the downbeat. Its average tempo is between 120 and 140 BPM, its syncopated rhythm is fundamentally built on the base model "kick-snare-kick-kick-snare-kick" whose typical example is the piece of Kraftwerk's "Numbers'. Sound is characterized by the use of analog sound synthesis for writing tracks and abundant inclusions of the effects of echo, delay, reverb, vocoder-treated vocals and lyrics on the sci-fi and futuristic theme." That formula was created by Kraftwerk, that transformed afro-american soul/funk to german machine/robotic music started with TEE. It's far away from synthesizer funk/boogie. And Bambaata just bring it back to roots a little, started funky/hip-hop side of Electro.

    So anything that doesn't follow that formula or fall under this specific definition is not Electro? ???

    I agree with every bit of this! :)

    Quote from lj;64865

    Numbers: More emphasis on the "weird electronic sounds" side of things. Beatwise, more emphasis on the mechanical, robotic quality.
    Computer Age: More emphasis on the groove. Huge emphasis on the bass (there is no bass on Numbers).

    So, if "Numbers" had a bass line then it would be "Electro Funk"? Believe me, I tried like hell to get that robotic, computerized sound but there is only but so much you can do with a Pro One and an 808. ;D

    OK... agreed. BTW, I was sure that there was an earlier version of "Popcorn" as I was quite young when I first heard it. Good digging. :)

    OK, further then on the original topic. What distinguishes "Electro" from "Electro Funk"? If "Numbers" is Electro, why is "Computer Age" Electro Funk? :)

    Of course, all of this is just conjecture, but my point was that Hip-Hop was changing ALL of dance music at the time, so it makes sense that it would have inspired Kraftwerk as well at the same time. SOMETHING inspired them to start making people dance. I suspect that being exposed to the American black culture in '75, when Hip-Hop was really starting to spread, inspired them to want people to dance to their music. Likely most of Radioactivity was already in the can, but the next new project they embarked on they decided to add at least 1 funky dance beat. That was TEE.

    Otherwise, why weren't they using James Brown inspired funky beats all along? Why the sudden change in '76?

    Quote from elektroakust.;64856

    I think the "Electro" he meant is not the "all of electro-nic music"-Electro,
    but the "what people on here would consider"-Electro. ;D

    How is that "Popcorn" track different from much of the "Electro" of early Kraftwerk? :)

    Quote from elektroakust.;64855

    You'll have to explain to Bhose though that thats not the "Electro-Funk" he has in mind
    when he's saying that "Electro-Funk is a subsidiary of Hiphop". :D

    If "Trans Europe Express" and "Numbers" are "Electro-Funk" then its rather "Proto-Electrofunk" in hindsight. 8)

    You've got to remember, I don't really understand ANY of these labels! I'll let you Europeans sort them out since it was y'all that came up with them! ;D

    As for Hip-Hop, I tend to agree with Bhose, that the break-rocking culture that sprang out of black music DJs in the early '70s likely inspired Kraftwerk to make dance music. For me, that was Hip-Hop... but there are a bunch of Bronx Hucksters who break down Hip-Hop into only 4 elements who would likely disagree... and since they invented the term... :D

    Yeah, but now that I think about it, maybe it doesn't really count as Electro, since I believe that's a real drummer. I still get crossed up at these definitions. :D

    We used to rock this shit tho!

    Quote from wex;64848

    Just for information: when i wrote that with TEE Kraftwerk created electro and start produce more danceble music, some people wrote in response: What? Are you insane, how to dance to this music? KW is conceptual electronic group.... White people more concentrated on melody. :)

    You (we) were right! ;D

    Quote from wex;64848

    And what are you guys want to find out in this topic? I read some interesting details, but they do not change nothing: KW was influenced by soul/funk, invited electro formula etc. - it's a fact, may be if KW don't do it, Juan Atkins do or sombody else, but i don't think so :)

    Is it possible that this composition was prototype of electro? what do think?

    KW did NOT invent Electro. They pioneered and indeed revolutionized it, but it existed before them. It was only a matter of time before somebody put some funky beats under it. In fact, there were already cats making funky electronic, synthesized music before them, though often with real drums and much less sequencing.

    As for a prototype of Electro, this springs to mind, but I believe that there are even earlier examples.


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    Quote from daro;64834

    There you go after 8 or so posts of you waffling on you answered your own question, they
    In their own words, loved all the tunes on station to station,

    Are you still arguing oranges and apples.....

    Cozmo d On this topic ad nauseum

    Daro, is English your first language? If not, then I guess you have just been misunderstanding me. If it is, I guess that you are just trying to wind me up.

    My own question had nothing to do with "Station To Station", which has nothing to do with this thread. I said the first time that you mentioned it that I had read that as well, so on the point of being inspired by "Station To Station" we were in agreement from the start. But what I said immediately was that it was not "Station To Station" that inspired them to make dance music, as "Station To Station" was not a dance record, and it was the SONG (not the album) "Station To Station" that inspired the train theme for TEE. I now get the larger point that you are trying to make that the entire album inspired them, but that still is not what inspired them to make a dance record, as there is not a single dance cut on the "Station To Station" album, even though some of it is indeed danceable.

    And now, we have Karl Bartos' own words to back me up, that their intention WAS to make a dance record, and that they started adding more and more "funky" "Black beats" STARTING FROM TEE! So now you can go argue with and insult him! :D

    So... by way of their own description... and my understanding of the definition... I think that it is fair to say that tracks like "Trans Europe Express" and "Numbers" are indeed... Electro Funk! ;D

    Quote from daro;64829

    But kraftwerk are talking about station to staion all the LP
    Being a inspiration not just the title track,

    I agreed that "Station To Station" inspired TEE, but that doesn't explain why they decided to make it a dance record. You are arguing apples and oranges. :)

    Quote from elektroakust.;64823

    Actually i wouldn't even consider the beat in TEE danceable...
    unless you speed up the record a lot.

    We danced to it in Brooklyn. It rocked many a party. It was a breakbeat staple. ;)

    Quote from daro;64824

    What ?? Stay and golden years are not dance records, they must have
    rocked more party's than a drunk bill murry, even columbos bad eye
    could see that.

    I didn't say "Stay" or "Golden Years", I said "Station To Station". ???

    Here are some excerpts from an interview with Karl Bartos

    You mention how even though you loved black music it wasn't your sound. What's interesting is how, very early on, you were embraced by black America – or certain parts of the black American concert going public at least.

    KB: "That happened not too long after my first encounter with Ralf and Florian. In 1975 we went over the Atlantic and spent 10 weeks on the road. We went from coast to coast and then to Canada. And all the black cities like Detroit or Chicago, they embraced us. It was good fun. In a way apparently they saw some sort of very strange comic figures in us I guess but also they didn't miss the beats. I was growing up with the funky beats of James Brown and I brought them in more and more. Not during Autobahn or Radioactivity but more and more during the late 70s. We took some black beats into our music and this was very attractive to the black musicians and the black audiences in the States. In a way probably it reminds me of what The Beatles did. They took some Chuck Berry tunes and they transferred it to our European culture before taking it back to America and everyone understood that. In a way that was probably what we did with black rhythm and blues. But we mixed it of course with our own identity of the electronic music approach and European melodies. And this was good enough to succeed in America.

    With Trans Europe Express was there a conscious effort to repeat the transport motif that you'd initially explored on Autobahn? And what experiments did you use to capture that propulsive rail travel rhythm?

    KB: [laughing] "This is very, very funny! Nobody pointed this out! You are one of the first journalists to point out the repetition of the concept of transport but it is true. In a way it was a repetition of Autobahn. But on the other hand by using the train motif we were following the path of someone like Pierre Schaeffer who made the first piece of musique concrète by only using the sounds of trains. That was in our mind also. At that time being around with Autobahn and Radioactivity we'd had enough of creating from our German heritage and rather we were considering ourselves as European musicians. If you came to England or America everyone was putting us in the field of Nazi Germany of course. We had this centerfold in the New Musical Express which was really no fun. And at that time the idea of the European community by using the synonym of Trans Europe Express we had the feeling that we could do it; that we could succeed by using this symbol. Eventually we went to train bridges and were listening to the sound the train would actually produce and by using the final rhythm it was just a little faint because a train doesn't actually sound like this! Because on a train you have two wheels and then the next wagon is starting with another two wheels and if you cross the gap on the rails it makes the sound "da-dum-da-dum Da-dum-da-dum" but of course you wouldn't be able to dance to that! So we changed it slightly."…d-the-birth-of-the-modern

    Quote from lj;64812

    imo they didn't start deliberately making danceable music until computerworld.

    What about The Man Machine album? Lots of Disco beats on there. Kind of thinking that they were a bit influenced by Giorgio Moroder on that one, but that would be blasphemy! :D

    I know that David Bowie made SOME dance music. I was DJing back then, remember. However, "Station To Station" is NOT a dance record. That point is not even arguable.