Posts by Cozmo D

    Except that they found that the train syncopation "was not danceable" and they altered it to make it so. ;)

    Quote from daro;64808

    Elektroakust I have a rare kraftwek BBC interview on tape,
    were they say david bowie station to station, was the biggest
    Influence on T,E,E

    Yeah, I have read that as well. "Station To Station" is a train themed track, and that part of it's influence on TEE is quite evident, right down to the train-like sounds and effects, but "Station To Station" isn't a dance record, while TEE is. What influenced Kraftwerk to start making DANCE records?

    Ask yourselves this question... what if Kraftwerk had remained an electronic experimental music group, more like Tangerine Dream or Jarre? Would the current form of Electro not be dance music? Or would it simply have been born of other Electro gods?

    Man, I don't hear anything near a danceable beat on any of those albums prior to TEE. It is obvious that before TEE they were not concerned with people dancing to their music, and that from TEE on they were. That change in mindset had to come from somewhere. Of course I am just conjecturing that Hip-Hop played some influence on that, but something made them decide that they wanted to make music that people would want to dance to.

    Before 1976 there were no Hip-Hop mindset producers as it was still an revolution that was being driven by DJs. However, at the same time that Kraftwerk was being influenced by this mindset others were as well, and '77 saw the beginning of break based tracks starting to drive the market, both in Disco and in other forms of dance music. They had started to trickle out in '76, then there were many more in '77. By '80 it was a flood. I am not accusing Kraftwerk of following this trend, I am pointing out that they were part of it.

    Quote from bhose;64796

    I've been explaining this to my pals for years and people just don't get it, I totally agree with you of course.

    Hip Hop has always been a way of PRESENTING other musics, it is not a 'music form' 'IN ITS OWN RIGHT' like other musics forms are. Other genre's are defined by the instrumentation (rock, classical, techno, electro), hip hop takes from everything else and presents it with a twist, now thats the truth.... RUTH! :D

    Well put!

    Quote from daro;64795

    For sure a dont think I have ever heard anyone say otherwise

    Well, if you agree then your statement that "its more electro funk than electro hip hop" makes no sense. On one hand you are making a distinction between the two, on the other you are admitting that there is no distinction. If "The Smurf" is "more electro funk than electro hip hop" then so is "Jam On Revenge".

    BTW, I can guarantee you that at the time neither I or Tyrone Brunson knew anything about any of these terms, so it's kind of funny that 30 years after the fact people are putting our music into categories that never existed at the time. :D

    Quote from daro;64785

    Simple it's got more funk init, than hip hop, but sure you are
    Smart and know I don't need to caveat every thing with " I think "

    There is no specific genre of music called Hip-Hop. Hip-Hop uses all kinds of genres, including Funk, to make the music of it's culture. Without Funk there is surely no "Jam-On Revenge" or "Jam On It".

    Perhaps you mean Rap? ???

    Quote from elektroakust.;64763

    Agreed, but the worldwide spreading didn't really start before the 80s, right?

    Wrong. It occurred in the '70s. When the DJing changed, and DJs went from playing 1 pass of an entire record to using two copies of a record and mostly playing and extending the breaks, the music created for dancing soon followed suit. Breaks and then tracks became longer and longer until many records were basically built around the break itself. This eventually inspired 12inch singles and remixes. All due to early Hip-Hop DJs rocking breaks.

    Quote from elektroakust.;64763

    Well, you never know... it's not impossible that they got wind of it during their first America tour in 1975.
    But then again i doubt that. As in 1975 that could have only happened in very few special
    places and only in the Bronx (?)

    Nonsense. This style of DJing had already been going on for some time and had spread throughout the dance music world. If they went to a dance club while they were in the states, they heard it. Period. And likely could not help but be influenced by it. As for The Bronx, you have been brainwashed by the Boogie Down Bamboozlers who have been hustling this Bronx story for a living for eons. NOTHING happens in isolation in NYC. The Bronx is not in a vacuum. Most of these "pioneers" are my age or even younger, and like I said, I first heard Hip-Hop in the spring of '75 at the age of 15... IN CONEY ISLAND. That's about as far as you can get from The Bronx and still be in NYC. It was already old then. PappaWheelie Joe González, who has researched this extensively, points to Grandmaster Flowers (from Brooklyn) rocking breaks in Yankee Stadium (in The Bronx) in 1969! YEARS before Kool Herc's claim.

    Quote from elektroakust.;64763

    It could well be that, Flür as a professional drummer, having an ear for unusual breaks
    parts in songs took inspiration from that before or at the same time as any Hiphop DJ started
    extending Breaks with 2 turntables. As far as i remember he only mentions Funk and
    James Brown as an extra source of inspiration for his drumming. His drumming in Kraftwerk
    also slowly developed from rather experimental to that typical minimalized style of the later
    Kraftwerk sound. So it didn't change "all of a sudden" really.

    Did Kraftwerk do ANY dance records before TEE? Did they do a single track with at least a halfway danceable beat on it? I'm no big fan of theirs, but I sure can't think of one. So, they were a Krautrock and then experimental music group. Then, they tour the states in 1975. After that, they go back into the studio in 1976 and decide to make dance records, with funky beats underneath. But that ain't "all of a sudden"?

    I agree with you. After all, you people have labeled my music as "Electro" and it in no way related "back to the point when the electronic version of Hiphop was labeled "Electro" (i.e. 1983)". I wasn't paying any mind to what other cats were doing at the time, I was making original music using electronic instruments and drawing on a myriad of influences from the '70s... including Kraftwerk. If I could do that then then surely someone could do that (or a variation of that) now. However, THAT IS THE VERY ESSENCE OF HIP-HOP, borrowing from other influences to make break based music that rocks the crowd. My objection was not to you decrying the influence and significance today of '80s Electro Funk in modern Electro, it was saying that it had no relation to Hip-Hop. Again, it all comes down to how you define Hip-Hop, and my definition is much more broad and universal than the majority of The Bronx Carnival Barkers, most of whom never made a fukkin beat in their lives.

    Quote from elektroakust.;64763

    Which brings us to the next question... what exactly is "funky"? ;D
    From my understanding in most contemporary productions the funky elements are really rare.
    Just saying... i don't necessarily consider this a bad thing.

    Kind of hard for me to define, but I sure as hell know it when I hear it. And you're right, it is very rare on the European side of things these days IMHO.

    You have made my point. You are defining Hip/Hop with Rap, which is merely a non-essential element of Hip-Hop, and broken beats, which has nothing to do with Hip-Hop and is not what I said. I said breaks, not broken beats. Hip-Hop doesn't have it's own genre of music, rather it begs, borrows and steals from other genres, Jazz, Disco, Funk, Rock, Soul, as long as it has some kind of break (broken beat or otherwise) that makes people want to get down. Hip-Hop manifested itself first as a style of DJing, extending and rocking mainly the breaks of records. This developed in the early '70s (or even earlier) and spread throughout the world, influencing artists across genres who were making any kind of dance music. Soon artists were extending the breaks in their records or even making the entire record one long break. This was due to Hip-Hop long before anybody ever called it that. Hip-Hop is the reason you bought 2 of every ultra funky record you had.

    As for Kraftwerk, I challenge that it may have been Hip-Hop that made them attempt to get funky with their beats. Hip-Hop had been alive and well for YEARS before TEE. I first heard Count JC rocking the break of "Bra" by Cymande in the spring of '75, and I was late! Kraftwerk suddenly started putting funky beats under their tracks in '76 (released in '77) with long breaks. Why? What or who were they listening to? At the same time Funk and Disco (and even rock) acts started doing the same thing. Coincidence?

    To be fair though, both Kraftwerk and Juan Atkins very well may have never known or cared a damm thing about what came out of The Bronx. I know that I didn't, and if you are using that narrow definition of Hip-Hop I might have to agree with you. But, I was there in the mid to late '70s (unlike most of the so-called Hip-Hop historians these days) and experienced (and took part in) the revolution live, and for me Hip-Hop will always be based around breaks. Broken beat, 4/4, bass, doesn't matter as long as it makes the crowd rock. If that is the Kraftwerk you are influenced by then there is a chance that you are influenced by Hip-Hop.

    Quote from elektroakust.;64742

    I mean how much Hiphop is there in Juan Atkins' or Gerald Donalds work, and the work
    of all those who did similar or got heavily influenced by those. I'd say that ~90% of all new
    "Electro" (aka New School Electro, Technobass, Technobreaks, Electrotechno, Technolektro,
    Electrostep etc etc) from the early 90s on has almost 0 connection to Hiphop, but to
    Kraftwerk and the purely electronic side of things.

    Not sure that I agree with this. In fact, I am sure that I do not. Perhaps the problem is, before we define what forms of "Electro" are or are not influenced by Hip-Hop, we first have to define Hip-Hop. Hip-Hop is first and foremost built around the break. I cannot think of another genre of music that was centered around the break before Hip-Hop. Therefore, every form of Electro that bases itself on the break owes at least something to Hip-Hop.

    Quote from Starchild;64703

    155, I appreciate your response, and I know that my reply to wex may suggest I was a bit confused as to the theme of the thread, but I would like to point out that the bigger question is not the use or origin of the term "electro-funk", but more the origin of the word electro, and how it is used or maybe even misused. My argument has always been that it is not being misused as long as it relates to electronic music. People in the 70s referred to electronic music as electro, and it is only till Streetsounds came around that there seems to be confusion, and one single genre ( us ) trying to claim electro as only one thing.

    Electro funk in my eyes always has been, and always will be ok, as are terms like electro bass or electro pop. It has always been my belief that as long as we don't classify our type of electro as something like electro bass, it will always be lost in the mess of things, as people have nothing to direct them to what style we do specifically. That wouldnt be the case if other genres of electronic music did not call their music electro-----, but they do, and it has only helped to keep us back, as so many are very stubborn to continue calling our style electro only, and are very elitist towards anyone else calling their stuff electro. It is specially a problem when new members sign up here, and get turned away by nasty attitudes. We could grow, but a lack of understanding, like a ship without a compass if you will, keeps us from moving forward.

    WELL SAID!!!!

    Quote from LektroiD;64130

    Thanks for this, I registered with Juno, just waiting to hear back from them now.

    As for iTunes, seems they only support major labels (not new or unsigned artists), so they can go chase themselves as far as I'm concerned. I have a bee in my bonnet when it comes to corporates that have no interest in independent artists & suchlike.

    Sign on with a digital distributor Richie, it's much easier than trying to get your music assigned to each download outlet yourself one by one. And you don't want to miss out on the massive sales potential that is iTunes. Evan's link looks like a very interesting option.

    Quote from lj;63972

    I have been listening to the 2 albums a lot during my workouts lately, and I was thinking the same thing about Teknology.

    Very much interested, of course. :D
    What's the timeframe for this?

    At least a month, probably longer. PM me if you want the stems. :)

    This should be right up the ally of many here. Probably our most "Nu Electro" like track back then :)

    Before we went into Sigma to lay "Teknology" on 24 track I recorded it on my 12 track Akai recorder. Well, I have transferred the multis to digital. It is exactly the same as the release (minus edits and effects of course). What I don't have is the drums (I assume any remixer would change them anyway) and the samples, but everything else is there! The "Tek-Nology" voice sample is isolated on the CD so I'll sample that and include it to.

    Here is what I am doing. Anybody who contacts me to do a remix I will give the stems to. If I like your remix I will release it in some fashion. The best ones I will include on an official release on CD and digital. The very best perhaps even vinyl. Of course, all remixes will be my property... HOWEVER, as compensation for your hard work I will license the remix back to each remixer to release or sub-license on a 50/50 basis. You only have to notify me as to your usage. Of course, if I release it commercially you can't just give it away, but if I give it away knock yourself out!

    Anybody interested? 8)


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